The Human-Savvy Podcast
In this podcast, leaders worldwide can learn how to develop their emotional intelligence, interpersonal skills and... "speak Human".
In each episode, Dr Liv Oginska - an international speaker, psychologist, veterinary surgeon and emotional intelligence expert - meets Dr Emma McConnell - a specialist in Equine Medicine, university lecturer, and entrepreneur - and they answer questions about the people-related leadership challenges that were sent to Human-Savvy from leaders around the globe.
Dr Liv shares practical advice on managing challenging team dynamics and showing up as charismatic, highly emotionally skilled leaders and managers. Dr Emma brings in the leader's perspective, asks deepening questions, and shares her experience of being a manager in both a large organisation and a start-up.
Listeners will learn how to bolster team performance and create trust, create sustainable careers, navigate conflicts between coworkers, manage incivility and so much more.
Tune in to get the support that you deserve and take your leadership skills to the next level!
The Human-Savvy Podcast
Season 2, Episode 3: "Fertility vs Responsibility - How to Navigate Personal Issues That Impact Work Performance"
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
*TRIGGER WARNING* - in this episode, hosts discuss fertility issues
Leadership often requires navigating the delicate balance between compassion and accountability, especially when personal challenges collide with professional responsibilities. At the heart of today's conversation lies a powerful question: how can leaders support employees through significant life events while still meeting critical business objectives?
Dr Liv and Dr Emma dive deep into a real-world scenario where a manager struggles to maintain project momentum when a soon-to-be father needs time for prenatal appointments – a situation made more emotionally charged by the couple's difficult conception journey. What began as a well-intentioned conversation about scheduling has resulted in a strained relationship that both parties need to repair.
(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Liv Oginska >>> )
(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Emma McConnell >>> )
This episode offers concrete steps for repairing workplace relationships through honest conversation, solution-focused approaches, and compassionate understanding. We explore how leaders and team members can create agreements that protect both individual needs and team objectives, turning potential conflicts into opportunities for deeper connection.
Whether you're leading teams or navigating your own workplace challenges, you'll gain valuable insights on transforming difficult conversations into productive collaboration.
Ready to transform your leadership transition? Listen now for practical strategies to shift perceptions, build authentic authority, and create a team dynamic based on mutual respect rather than intimidation.
Click here to find more leadership resources connected to the Human-Savvy Podcast Episodes >>>>
Do YOU have any questions for Human-Savvy?
Are you a leader or professional in need of advice on interpersonal dynamics, team leadership, or other related areas? We are here to help you!
Please send your letter to info@behumansavvy.com with the title "Dear Human-Savvy..." and we promise to fully anonymise it and record an episode entirely devoted to tackling your challenge!
Also, we deeply value your feedback. Please email us your thoughts, ideas and suggestions to info@behumansavvy.com or follow and message Dr Liv on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/olivia-liv-oginska-53b345200
Introducing a Complex Workplace Dilemma
Speaker 1Hi, emma, good to see you.
Speaker 2How are you today? I'm really well lovely to see you. It has been quite a day, so very lovely to see your beautiful face.
Speaker 1You're cutie. She's saying that to put me in a good mood. I'm sensing there's going to be some complicated letter from a reader. Am I guessing correctly? It is?
Speaker 2Absolutely. It's really interesting, though, so very keen to hear your thoughts on this. So here we go, dear Human Savvy. I'm a manager of one of the branches of a large international company here in Australia. I have a relatively small team of engineers under my care. We are all foreign, most of us European, but we also have some people from Australia and Asia. Being a manager of the international team is a challenge, especially because I'm relatively new to the role. I can feel a lot of pressure coming from the central office and also some of my supervisees are older or with similar work experience.
Speaker 2I think that I have been doing well as a leader up until one of my employees found out that he's going to be a dad. I was very happy for him, as I know that him and his wife have been trying for a baby for many years. All good and jolly, but there is one issue Because the pregnancy is so precious to them, the wife is super anxious and she doesn't want to go to the doctor's appointments on her own, which I totally understand. What it means is that my employee will frequently take the time off to be with her, and normally it wouldn't be a problem, but we are near closing a very important project and we are under the pump. We really need this guy to be present.
Speaker 2I tried to mention this to him, but he immediately got super defensive and concluded that I don't care about his family. Now his demeanor changes. He's a bit short or avoidant with me. I don't think I handled it properly. Is there a chance to repair it? I don't want this situation to turn into a conflict that will jeopardize the success of our project. Oh wow.
Speaker 1Goodness me, even the length of this letter, like I'm so grateful that our audience wants to give us like the details and everything. I'm so grateful that our audience wants to give us like the details and everything but that is heavy stuff right Absolutely, and you can only just imagine, I guess, like one.
Speaker 2That's so hard for the leader but also for the employee, because he probably feels pulled in multiple directions. He wants to do the right thing by his team at work and of course, wants to do the right thing by his wife too. So it's a hard situation for everyone involved.
Understanding the Leader's Perspective
Speaker 1It is absolutely, and it's hard for the leader, for the employee, for the wife, even for that little baby, I suppose. I know Parents are stressed, goodness me, but congratulations to all the parents out there who really wanted to become parents and it worked for them. That's really beautiful and amazing. Okay, so let's have a think about how we could tackle that, how we could approach this situation. Okay, so I think it's really worth thinking about what we have in here, what sort of information we were given by that letter. So what I'm hearing in here that we've got that leader who is in a very complicated situation a lot of internationals, a lot of pressure on that leader. He works for the company with many branches. I suppose there will be maybe few different leaders above that leader's head. So that's this complexity, okay. So the structure of the of the company uh, obviously, being away from the headquarters, as much as I understood that these, it's somewhere out there in the world. Um, we've got that employee who's obviously emotionally charged because there were, there was a lot of trouble in getting pregnant and they succeeded, but now they are worried about it. So that's another reason that the author of this letter is so distressed. It looks like they already had a conversation, some sort of conversation, and it didn't really go well. Right, we have a bit of a disruption of relationship in here. Right, we have a bit of a disruption of relationship in here.
Speaker 1Okay, so many elements there, and the first thing that I would say is the person asked the question is it possible to repair the situation? Is it possible to do something about it that we can get on the same page, that we can feel comfortable together? And the answer to that is yes, absolutely, absolutely. A little caveat in here it's going to be hard, my friend. It's going to be hard, but it's possible. So that's the good news. I'm always curious about your experience, emma, in the way that have you ever destroyed accidentally, I suppose any relationship with your employee? Not completely, but have you ever disrupted a relationship with one of your employees?
Speaker 2Yes, tell us more. I'm sorry to say that, yes, I have Okay for where this leader is coming from because, like, I'm not making excuses for the way that I handled a particular situation, but I think I reacted in the way that I did, which was negative, and I definitely could have handled the situation better. However, the frame of mind that I was in, I would say, did come from an immense amount of pressure that was on me and a huge workload that I was trying to cope with and obviously wasn't coping really with it. But I'm not one to say I need help or I'm not coping. It's too much. That's just not in me to say that, because I think I can do it all okay, we need to tackle that in a separate episode.
Speaker 2We're gonna go back to it yes, so so I can definitely appreciate, yeah, how he might feel that maybe they didn't handle the situation, probably because I've done exactly the same thing and it really affected a relationship that I had with one of my people that I work with, I get that Okay.
Speaker 1Thank you so much for being so honest. Have you ever worked on repairing that relationship? Have you ever worked on?
Speaker 2repairing that relationship? Yes, and I can say that the relationship is definitely improved. It's not what it was.
Speaker 1I see.
Speaker 2Yeah, but it's better than you know. The intermediate period, let's say yes, I get that.
Speaker 1Okay, I'm glad that it is better for you, yes, and I'm sure you can then say, definitely, because you've been through that, that it's really really hard and it's really can be even exhausting right for the leader to try to repair that relationship. And I think it's worth being very clear in here, letting everyone who's listening to this episode, letting everyone know that if you made a mistake as a leader, you can and you should work on repairing that mistake and it's nothing shameful.
Speaker 1You are a human. You will make mistakes. Some of them will be gigantic. I will destroy the whole company. Hopefully that never happens to you. But some of them will be minor. Some of them will be still annoying and difficult to work around and they will still impact how people see you. But let's remember that we cannot really make anyone think anything specifically about us, because it will be still impacted by their own perspective, their own bubble, as we call it in human savvy. It will be still impacted by the background of the person. However, we can still do our very, very best to make the amends to just show that we care about the quality of the relationship that we have.
Speaker 1So, our dear leader listening to this episode, our dear author of this letter, it is okay, don't beat up yourself too much, you can come out of it. So let's talk about coming out of it, because that is the thing that is the most important in this situation. I think we need to truly understand the immensity of emotion that is present in this particular case. We've got two people, one person, that leader having so much pressure on their shoulders, being under the pump, like they said, and we have that dad-to-be or that already in early stages, who is super worried not only about the team but also about wives. So there is such a huge amount of emotion there that of course there's going to be a clash and we talk about that in previous episodes a few times that when we get very, very stressed, we become a little bit tunnel visioned, right. So we naturally more selfish if we want to choose that word, because we want to survive. That is our nature, our human nature, so we want to make sure that we survive. So we start focusing, narrowing our focus, and we are less likely to empathize with other people. Now, thinking about that dad-to-be, he is probably carrying the emotions of three people. The leader is carrying the emotions of 20 people. So it's such a complicated situation and I think understanding what both parties in this conflict because that's conflict, what they truly want and need is essential.
Speaker 1I have a question for you and I know that I can ask you. We talk about that. You gave me a permission to ask the question because we talk about those topics in the past. We know that this dad is very stressed and his wife is very stressed because pregnancy is very precious. It took them very long time. Um, I know that you yourself had a pregnancy that wasn't straightforward. Help us listeners understand what sort of emotions might be happening for that couple that worked so hard to get pregnant. Help us understand, please.
The Emotional Reality of Pregnancy
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely, it would be my pleasure. So I guess, just to give a little bit of context, we went through quite a long IVF journey to get our little Daisy. So we ended up doing eight rounds of IVF before having to recruit an egg donor, which we were very lucky to have someone very special to us become our egg donor, which is amazing, and obviously everything you know went really well moving forward from that and we now have our beautiful daughter, which we're incredibly thankful for. So I can definitely understand and empathise where this employee is coming from and one thing it probably depends on the type of person you are.
Speaker 2But one thing that does happen, I think, with any trying to conceive journey is that it becomes all-consuming. It's an obsession and I think, yeah, absolutely, and it's something. It's because it's all you think about. It's often as husband and wife or partners. You know you talk a lot about it, you know you're fearful because you worry is it not going to happen? So emotionally it's really heavy and it's it is all consuming and it can sort of make you forget about other things or you prioritize other things less. So I think sometimes what can happen, which can potentially be difficult for the people around you is that it becomes your number one priority. But it's not everyone else's number one priority, obviously, but sometimes you're so deep in it that that's all you can think about. So so, again, I can kind of understand that.
Speaker 2If someone then was to say not something negative about it, but, you know, just sort of maybe insinuating that you know you're not a hundred percent present in the job that you're supposed to be doing, I can understand why you would. Someone would get defensive about that because it would be a bit triggering, because they're and I think, especially for the husband or the partner. You know they're trying to be the support person. You know, obviously it's the woman that's going through all of the injections, all of the procedures, all of the ultrasounds, you know, and they're uncomfortable things, and I think the poor partner is trying to do what they can to support that person and I think that actually sometimes it's actually harder for them. So it's like they're carrying maybe even more of a burden. So, emotionally, I mean, it's a huge, a huge roller coaster and, yeah, can be really challenging to deal with.
Speaker 1So I can see that and is it like now? Like, correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe you spoke about that with your partner. If anyone in the audience have been through that, we would love to hear from you. But I can imagine that for the partner so in this case that employee that is not present enough it might be really difficult that they can't do much. They can't grow that embryo. There's not much agency there right.
Speaker 2So all they can do is go to the appointments to be there to hold her hand, because she is going to be terrified, because every time they put that probe on you're like, is there a heartbeat? Yeah, and we don't know if they've like miscarried or anything. So you can absolutely understand and I think the leader completely understands where they're coming from and why. You know their wife is so, so anxious, but it is terrifying For sure, for sure.
Speaker 2And I think for anyone that's pregnant, not just someone that's, you know, had a hard journey to conceive. I think the same goes for anyone who's pregnant.
Speaker 1Everyone's going to feel fearful, okay so what I'm hearing in here is definitely a lot of fear. They are very scared, those people. There is probably a lot of hope.
Speaker 2Am I correct to say that they're very hopeful, absolutely. But sometimes it's scary to be hopeful because maybe they've had their heart broken. But there is always hope.
Speaker 1It's a bit apprehensive as well. Maybe they seek something stable, something that they can rely on in that very unstable time. Would it be fair from your perspective?
Speaker 2Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1Okay, so I'm just thinking about all those emotions. Obviously, I've never been in that situation. I cannot ever imagine the situation. No one can really imagine that for other people because we've never lived their life. But as much as I'm hearing in general, I suppose, all those very difficult emotions they will bring a lot of needs that this employee, this dad has the needs.
Speaker 1And we know that every workplace has those relationships between the leader and an employee and there are always some needs, requests and there are the offerings that we always go back to, that give and take. Even my coach yesterday was chatting with someone and they were laughing about like, oh, I could hear his voice give and take, give and take, give and take. Even my coach yesterday was chatting with someone and they were laughing about like, oh, oh, I could hear his voice Give and take, give and take, give and take. I'm glad it works. So there is that give and take that always happens and what this that needs. So the take would be a certain list of things. So please help me, Emma, with that. What do you think that person needs from their employee in that situation? What do you think? Let's collect it together.
Speaker 2So what does the employee need from the leader? Yes, yes, patience for sure, and probably a little bit of space to be defensive or maybe vent a little bit about a given situation or interaction. What they do really need is to be given the time to go to those appointments with their wife and that's a tricky one, right, because there is that much time available.
Speaker 1Yeah, okay, so we'll go back to that time, and I love what you said about the space to be defensive.
Finding Common Ground in Fear
Speaker 1Okay, so we're going to turn that into some practical actions for the leader. This is every time when we analyze the situation, dear leaders, when you're listening to it, whenever you analyze the conflict that you are in or your employees are in, think about what is it that is missing and how could I fill up that gap? What could I give to my employees, fill up that feeling, that gap? What could I give to my employees? What can I ask for to make sure that there are no gaps that suck out the energy from everyone and make us really angry with one another, that there's that animosity in a room, in a relationship. So what is it that we are missing there? And we are probably missing two things in here Definitely that time, which is a very practical aspect of it, but also, potentially, the space to be a little bit defensive, to just not be our best selves, which would be that understanding, which would be compassion towards that, am I correct?
Speaker 2Oh, compassion, that's the word for it. A hundred percent.
Speaker 1Okay, essential, we need that compassion, definitely from the leader, and we definitely need that that time. Okay, let's play the devil's advocate now. We shouldn't say the devil's, because he's not the devil in that situation. Um, it's just another human being. In the conflict, we have two parties and they're equally demolished. Let's put it that way. Let's think about the leader. So what are the emotions of this leader? And we also had a few little details in that letter that would be very interesting to go back to. I would love you to kind of remind us what this person said, because I am hearing a bit of potentially maybe self-doubt or impostery feeling. Could you just give us a little bit of that part?
Speaker 2So our author does mention that they are quite new to the role, that some of the people they supervise are older than them or do have similar work experience. So maybe that's sort of intimating that you know they may be questioning not do they belong in that leadership role? But are the employees questioning, do they have the experience you know to be in that role? That was definitely one, and then the other one was that this leader was concerned that they didn't handle the situation properly.
Speaker 1Okay, so they're questioning how they handled the situation so when you think about those two parts the first one and the second one they really connect interestingly and beautifully actually, when you think about it, because in the first part that person mentions that they are not entirely sure that they are smashing it, that they're incredibly, incredibly good at their job, and then in the second part they mention, kind of like a proof that they are not smashing it, that they are not really good at this job, at least from their perspective.
Speaker 1So I can imagine for that leader it's not only being under the pump, but there is some sort of need, I suppose, to prove that they are good, that they deserve to be in this position. So there must be some external and internal pressure to show that I'm not an imposter, I deserve to be in this role and I can handle situations like this and other difficult situations. So imagine that, that you are in this position, emma, and suddenly you have a lot of self-doubt, a lot of self-criticism. Maybe it's even true we're not going to get there at the moment, but let's say, let's say you have loads of that self-doubt every day and then suddenly there's something that kind of hits you on the face, telling you you know quote unquote that, oh you suck, you actually are not good at this. So let's think about the emotions that accompany potentially accompany that leader. What do you think, emma?
Speaker 2Well, I think for this leader, I think that self-doubt is going to be a huge one, and almost you wonder, wonder. Do they feel disappointed in themselves?
Speaker 1and is there a potential that they are disappointed in that employee? Potentially, we don't know, but there is a chance that it might be like oh, I thought that this person takes it very seriously, so they would never, even with that's important reason, they would never allow private life to stomp on the professional life. We don't know, but we need to take that into consideration yeah yeah, okay. So yeah, I'm hearing self-doubt disappointment. Anything else?
Speaker 2Maybe frustration For sure, because from the leader's perspective as well as if you do potentially have a team member who isn't operating at 100% efficiency, maybe for a period of time, not all the time, but maybe, you know, every now and then then that leader is going to be thinking is that creating more work for them, you know? Are they going to have to rearrange schedules, and obviously that puts more burden on the leader. So maybe some sense of frustration for sure I think would be would be definitely something they're feeling.
Speaker 1So that's frustration. And when we have a lot of pressure on our shoulders and there are potential repercussions of not meeting that pressure, not meeting the requirements, what is that emotion that we can have when there are repercussions potentially, and they might be significant, so we desperately try to avoid them? What do you think?
Speaker 2Well, I mean, what comes to my mind is anger, anger. Oh, I love it. You know I would potentially become. There's a risk that I would feel angry about that, depending on what those repercussions were.
Speaker 1It's so interesting you said anger because it really shows what sort of flavor of your inner chimp you might have in those situations. You might have in those situations. And when I talk about that inner chimp, we talk about that fight, fly, freeze, fawn response in human savvy, in those chimpy terms. So when anger comes to your mind, it is the amygdala, that emotional brain response really. So it is fear that can show up as anger. For sure, it's the self-protection, self-preservation, as simple as that. So this person might feel anger, but I would say that anger is a secondary emotion in this case and is kind of on top of the deep fear of survival. Just to put it simply, I don't want to lose my job, I don't want people to laugh at me. It's lack of safety in here as well. This leader does not feel safe because there is a pressure coming from every possible angle. So I would say that there is definitely fear there as well.
Speaker 2Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1Do you see now what they have in common?
Speaker 2Yeah, they're both terrified.
Speaker 1they're both terrified, yes they are and this is important. This is so. So we got to the crux of this issue. They have something very important in common they are both terrified in their own way. They are both, I suppose, men, and they maybe do not want to admit it, they don't want to show it, they maybe are not even kind of allowed to show it that they are terrified, but they are and they both need a little bit of support, reassurance and a bit of tlc. Yes, one another and organization, absolutely For sure. That's so interesting.
Speaker 1This is why I love kind of disassembling those things. It's kind of like a jigsaw puzzle, you know. But once you get to that thing that people have in common, you've got this. You can resolve the conflict. For those of you listening, leaders, who need to resolve conflicts, when you get to that point, when you can see what connects people, what they have in common, you've got this. You've got it sorted out, because now you can be guided by that finding. So let's get into the needs of the leader. Everything that we talk about, all the emotions that leader is going through and all that pressure and fear. What does the leader need from the employee in this case, emma? What do you think?
Speaker 2I mean, probably one of the biggest things would be information and forewarning. So if you know when your appointment is, if you let the leader know, then that obviously allows the leader to, you know, potentially be a little bit more open about giving that time off, because you know they can plan for it, they can work around it, they can not schedule meetings for that particular time. So, yeah, giving as much advanced warning is definitely a need, you know, because then that then helps the leader support the employee.
Speaker 1Absolutely. Does this leader need anything from the outside of this relationship? Would it be good to have some sort of support from the organization in this case, like bear in mind that this is a multicultural organization, the leader is new to the role and there suddenly boomed that gigantic issue. Do you think organization could help that leader, even approach the situation?
Speaker 2Yeah, I would think so. I mean it would depend on what the organization has in place as far as the type of support they can offer. You know, some human resource departments are incredibly useful and some are incredibly unhelpful in my experience. So it kind of depends. You know where they lie there, what their relationships are. But I guess the other thing is that does this leader have a mentor that they can talk to or reach out to?
Speaker 1Yes, I love it. I love that you said that mentor, because when I was listening to that letter and in the first instance, the first thing that came to my mind is that you know what? There must be someone in the world who's been through something like that, especially in this big, big organization with a lot of people from many different continents. I'm sure this is not the first dad in the company. At least I hope so, because otherwise our, like the future of our planet is in trouble. There's like no place. Oh, so, definitely a mentor. There will be someone who knows how to approach it or at least can give some sort of advice.
Speaker 1So what this leader needs is not only information, but a lot of support and reassurance and maybe information about the policies that already exist there around, what is allowed, what is not. Policies that already exist there around, what is allowed, what is not, Because this leader will be probably terrified that someone above his head will ask him how could you allow that person to be away for such an amount of time? They will have a lot of issues with that leader. The more clarity we have, the more we know about the policies that are there, the calmer we can feel because we know that, okay, I did everything according to our little laws that we have in this company, so no one can blame me. So that information comes from the outside as well and from within the relationship. I love that word that you use. That information, that's fantastic. What about emotionally? So, going back to the relationship between the leader and employee, is there something that, emotionally, the employee could give to the leader? Is this something we can try to create between one another and has to come from the employee?
Speaker 2I think honesty is a big one. So, being honest as much as they can be with their leader about how they're feeling and, I guess, what they do need emotionally, like, if they do need something, then they shouldn't be afraid to say it. I think honesty is probably the biggest one.
Speaker 1For sure, and even talking about our emotions. That requires honesty. And don't get me wrong, we are not talking about those two guys sitting in the office holding hands talking about their emotions. This is not what we're talking about. But if someone has some unmet need, they will go through very strong, unpleasant emotions. So I suspect that this leader is not sure if he can trust this employee, that this employee will do everything that they can, everything within their power, to actually be present, that, in other words, that they do prioritize work, that it's obviously not the same priority as the pregnancy but it's still very important. So I suppose if the employee gave a little bit of reassurance to the leader, being very open about it.
Speaker 1Let's say Steve, listen, I know that you're under the pump. I know that I'm adding stress to your pump in here. I hope that you understand how stressed I am and how much I care about my wife and this child. But I can promise you, I promise you that I care. It is still important to me. Does it make sense, emma, what I'm kind of trying to draw in here?
Speaker 2Yes, absolutely. So. It is giving that reassurance that when I'm at work, I am at work, yes, and I'm going to give you my best when I'm here, and there might be the odd time that I do ask for a couple of hours leave to be there and support my wife, but when I'm here, I'm, you know, I'm in.
Speaker 1Yes. So that's a lot of reassurance. That is that trust that we can build. So they need to trust one another a lot. That employee really needs to trust the leader. That they checked all the policies. So they are doing everything according to the general rules. So that is not. This person is not mistreated, the dad is not mistreated in any way. That the leader is truly taking into consideration all the conditions and they make the decision that was very considerate and that took all those factors into account. So that mutual trust I am giving you everything I can and I am giving you everything that I can. That is very important. But if we never talk about it, if we never talk about what we need from one another and what we are willing to offer it, it's going to be unsaid. It's going to be just like do you see how that mind feels?
Speaker 2Yes, absolutely. And then it just goes around and around and around in your head, around and around in the other person's head. Yeah, whereas if you can, just, you know, let it out and talk about it, then a solution can be achieved Absolutely. And if we don't talk about it like a solution can be achieved Absolutely.
Speaker 1And if we don't talk about it, like you said, the stories go round and round in their heads. Of course, there's going to be the worst case scenarios in their heads, there's going to be all those versions Okay, my leader hates me and he doesn't care about my unborn child. And the leader will think, well, he doesn't give a shit anymore. He's just like they got got pregnant. They don't need this job anymore. They do it, maybe on purpose. All those terrible stories, right? So, guys, we need to talk. These are difficult conversations, but we need to have them, and even if you try to have them and it didn't work, we want to restart. So let's boil it down to that kind of clear guidance, kind of a skeleton of the conversation that we could have in that situation. How does that sound, emma? Should we Perfect?
Speaker 2Let's do it Okay.
Creating Practical Solutions Together
Speaker 1So in those situations I think, inviting one another into the meeting so it would be the leader inviting employee for the meeting meeting there in a privacy, when no one is bothering anyone, when you have enough time for one another it might need to be in an hour sometimes and I feel like repairing relationships is incredibly important, so it's worth prioritizing the time in your schedule and you meet there in a privacy, you have enough time and to literally take a piece of paper and a pen and write down your names on that piece of paper, make a bit like a table, and one column will be Steve and one column will be George and we put you know like two little like rows, needs and offerings. You can make it very simple, very visual, and have a conversation guided by that to talk about. Okay, steve, I'm really worried about this situation. I think we had a conversation that did not go well, that I feel that we need to understand one another and just make a plan together because we are in this together.
Speaker 1It's not me against you. This is what I need, and don't be afraid to be vulnerable and granular in there to say, steve, I need to have information from you, which means this, this, this, and that I need to be able to trust you, which means this, this, this and that. Would you be able to offer that to me? Is that something that we could agree on and we build that together? We talk about? How does it look practically? So do I let you know? I don't know. Every week I tell you if we have any new appointments, maybe even every day if something changes. Um, you guys will know best that. The author of this letter will know what sort of conditions are at work. But we need to have it practical, palpable. We know exactly what we're doing in there. And the same goes to the other person, to our george. I probably mixed up the names by now, by now, but let's say, george says to the leader listen, I need to know that I can trust you and that you trust me, that I truly, really care and vocalize that I still care about this job, but obviously that pregnancy is incredibly important and this is what I can offer. So I can make sure, and it's my responsibility to be truly aware of all those meetings that are coming, all all the appointments with the doctor, and I will let you know. I will put them in a calendar the way you see them. I will do it timely. If anything changes, I also update it timely. So there might be a lot of things that they can establish between one another to achieve that goal.
Speaker 1The practical goal is to make sure that that time is given but the job is still done. Maybe it would be some idea coming from George or from the dad that you know, one of my colleagues is actually fantastic at one of my duties, so we could potentially temporarily delegate that part of my job to this person, because leader might have no idea that this is actually an option, you see. So george needs to sit down and think about all the things that can facilitate the situation, and the same goes to the leader. Both of them need to think about it. So the practical outcome is to have that time and have the job done, but there's also the emotional outcome. We always think facts and feelings, both of those for the feelings, so that they both can minimize the fear and frustration. How does this sound to you have I avalanched. I love it.
Speaker 2Okay, yes, no, I love that. Yeah, I really love that and I think it's really nice. Yes, no, I love that. Yeah, I really love that and I think it's really nice. I'm a huge fan of being solutions focused. You know, if you have a problem, that's fine. We talk about the problem, but let's come up with some solutions and this is really solutions focused, and obviously having or creating those solutions together again is going to go a long way in repairing that relationship, because it's showing that you have that mutual respect, that you do care about the organization, you care about employee and leader. So, yeah, I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1One thing that came to my mind is that what you said about solution-oriented discussions. To my mind, is that what you said about solution-oriented discussions. Those solutions will be absolutely practical, which means I'm going to put on your diary that my appointment is then and then. But these are also emotional solutions. So we make a social contract, as it's called in psychology, between you and I kind of like SOP on how we treat one another.
Speaker 1And you mentioned before that one of the needs of the dad will be to have a bit of a space to be defensive, to have a bit of a space to not be their best self in that situation. And the same kind of goes towards the leader. The leader is under the pump, so they, they should try to manage their emotions as much as they can, but they it will be hard for them. So, in other words, they kind of need to sit down and clearly establish between one another that, mate, I'm gonna cut you some slack, I'm not gonna take it personally. Yes, the compassion, that we're going to be compassionate towards one another and that we also describe how it looks practically.
Speaker 1It could be very, very concrete, simple ground rules that, for example, I don't complain about you and I don't moan about you to my colleagues, that that's our, our sacred space and relationship. When we don't create gossip or judgment or destroy somebody's reputation outside of this relationship, um, we can really protect everyone in a team from like a big dose of potential incivility and negativity that could come out of it. Um, so let's remember everyone that solutions are super practical, but they're also the emotional solutions. They're concrete steps, actions that support our emotional health. Love it, okay. I hope that it helps our dear listener, emma. Would you be keen to try it out in the future? If you had some sort of conflict with your employee, would you at least sit down with them, take a piece of paper and talk about it?
Speaker 2Yes, absolutely, I would definitely do that.
Speaker 1Everyone who's listening to us probably thinking by now, like what is she going to say?
Speaker 2No, Like no, that sounds like a terrible idea.
Speaker 1Oh, but I know you would tell me. You would tell me if something didn't sound right and I hope it can be helpful to people out there. Guys, if you have any questions around it, we are here to answer those questions. So if you have your own perspective, if you think that, oh, it wouldn't work, or maybe your case is different, please let us know. And we really hope that you can grow through those conflicts that you have, because you will have conflicts in a team. You will need to resolve them as the leader, but that will help you to grow, grow, grow and become very much a human savvy leader.